OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I started playing LP with 837 OX a few years now. This was good fun, it seemed to have the maximum effect, lots of wobble balls, good for chopping away from the table, decent for blocking.

However I always struggled with this rubber in the short game.

I recent years I've learned a lot more about what you can do, the different strokes, etc. I've tried more and more rubbers with a thin sponge. This seems to give me much better control, and also allows me to get some backspin on the ball, which i always found very hard to do with OX.

I can see how OX can be very powerful close to the table, since you can do very short blocks with great spin reversal.

However a little more away from the table, or for a faster counter attack, I feel the ones with sponge are better.

At the top level most use LP with at least a 1mm sponge, presumably to be able to get more spin and to make attacking with them easier.... I find this too hard to control myself, but no doubt need a lot more practice at it...

What are your reasons for going OX or not OX???

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

So I first begin with LP with sponge, without any knowledge about this I buy it in a small sport shop. Not the best idea, I had a Tibhar Grass Off with 2.0mm sponge: control vanished, speed difficult to use...

Now, after some years with several LP (and others types of rubbers) I would make the next summuary:

* with sponge: : thick (from 1mm) :faster, less control at the table, less disturbing effect but easy to block and to attack.
* thin sponge: 0.5mm : still faster than Ox, easy to chop at 2 or 3 meters, possible to be used at the table to.
* Ox: really slow, even on a fast blade, very good at the table, asks more power in classical defense (lose a bit of control therefore), great control.

But Ox or not Ox is not the only question because you also need to chose grippy or frictionless. And I think it's the first question before the thickness because it change the reaction of the ball.

_________________
Blade : Tibhar COS3
Forehand: Moon Pro 2.0
Backhand: Neubauer Desperado Ox
****
http://www.diabolosyl.net (my own site)
http://www.tennis-de-table.com (biggest forum in France)

Hi Forum:

Good question, for frictionless pips OX is needed because
1. You're close to the table
2. Better deviating effects
3. Very little control otherwise.

The idea of frictionless is to generate spin using stroke variation, its easy to read in the end but it is effective. You need all the 'effects' you can muster to compensate for the inability to hide the spin and of course because you are close to the table need to do good drop shots.

Soft pips have much more control so going sponge is much easier. I would say anything frictionless OX is a good place to start, although as soon as you're any distance from the table then sponge becomes a necessary.

_________________
Tibhar Grass D.techs OX | Donic BigSlam 2.0mm .
Re-Impact Medusa (balsa / 1-ply cherry wood)
Frictionless strokes | Attacking pip strokes | Greggy's advice | Bollsbrother | Sebastian Sauer . . . . . .

Hey Mathias!

Welcome to the forum, great to have another experienced Lp player here!

yes i feel far more comfortable away from the table, gives me more time to react and manipulate the spin.

I've stuck with a thin sponge because of the extra control it offers, but, assuming I continue to improve, I would like to go to a thicker sponge, to allow me to generate a bit more backspin, and help me attack more, which i've been working on...

Cheers!

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

I recently found out that fellow aussie Greg letts has changed from a sponged curl p-2 to an OX destroyer. Since he's a very experieced chopper (more away from the table) and he likes to hit with it as well, I don't know why he would change to OX? Surely the reduced dwell time of going to OX would limit his ability to manipulate spin away from the table...

I'll see if I can get an answer out of him...

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Alex, Greg is my coach. I know a little bit about why Greg changed his backhand pip from TSP Curl P-2 medium pip to Ox Destroyer.

In the national event down in perth he had conversation with Paul Pinkewich. Paul seems to convince him to try long pip Ox... Greg mentioned to me that he likes Stiga Destroyer Ox because of better control and on certain ball he can keep his chop low better than his old TSP rubber.

imho, stiga destroyer is like frictionless, not like superblock but it has less friction than Dawei 388D-1 for example. I think, Greg does not play spin variation using his long pip, but he DOES twiddle his blade to get spin variation if you know what I mean.

I don't know why, but I found that OX is much more controllable than using sponge. Currently, I am using Yasaka Phantom 0012

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VSG21-1000
FH: ???
BH: Yasaka Phantom 0012 Ox

Thanks a lot for the feedback pongz!

Sometimes when i mention Greg's name, he just magically appears...so I thought I'd try it

Do you find OX is more controllable with all rubber, or just the destroyer?

I found it much easier to keep my chops low with a little sponge, but I have not tried the LP rubbers you mentioned.

What's the 0012 like?

Cheers!

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Yes for me Ox gives more control, I see it now with the 955 on a very slow blade, still faster than the Monster Ox on a faster blade.

_________________
Blade : Tibhar COS3
Forehand: Moon Pro 2.0
Backhand: Neubauer Desperado Ox
****
http://www.diabolosyl.net (my own site)
http://www.tennis-de-table.com (biggest forum in France)

Well I guess it depends on how you perceived control.

I feel good control when I brush to ball, and can impart some spin...which is hard to do with OX. With OX I did have much more feel of the ball, and as you mentioned it much slower (which can be good or bad)...

But it's good to hear how some of you like one or the other better...

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

no worries, haggisv...

I am the same like Diabolosyl.. I like Ox better than using sponge... and I found it all across long pips that I have used. I have used 755, 755 faster, stiga destroyer, Neubauer superblock, Palio CK531, Dawei 388D-1 and settle with Yasaka Phantom 0012...

Why do I like Ox?.. Probably I like the wood 'tok tok' feel if you know I meant.. and I like it slow...

however please take into account that my chopping level is still beginner.. I have been coached for the last 3 years (the last 1 year and still current is Greg)... so I am open for discussion of what the advantages of using sponge and why professionals prefer using sponge rarther than Ox...

Regarding Yasaka Phantom 0012, first of all.. quality is top.. when you put glue to a long pip rubber... normally the rubber will go curly and funny shape.. but not with Phantom 0012.. and once you glue it.. and stick it to the blade... it sticks very firm.... sometimes when I glue other long pips, after a couple sessions I can see air buble here n there... but not with Phantom..

Quality is quite consistent between the red and the black... I feel the black is just slightly firmer..

The top surface is not frictionless... is rib.. but slight less than Dawei 388D-1.. the red phantom pips is definitely softer than the red Dawei388D-1..

It doesn't mix well with every blade... It doesn't mix well with hard blade (I tried on my Timo Boll spirit, BalsaCarbo x3)... But when I combine it with Yasaka Extra 3D or VSG21-1000.. it feels very very controllable on choppings..

On my VSG, it is roughly as slow as the superblock or Dawei388D-1 on OFF- blade.. I myself surprised about this... because VSG21-1000 is an OFF+ blade..... but when combine with phantom 0012.. it is very slow..

I have a question but I am not too sure whether this thread is the place to ask it... but aniwei I am going to ask you guys... How do you vary the spin using long pip that has a slightly rib like Dawei388D-1?.. do you chop like hou ying chao?? sort of side spin chop??..

Thanks mate

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VSG21-1000
FH: ???
BH: Yasaka Phantom 0012 Ox

Depending on how hard you brush the ball, you'll get different amounts of spin. if you brush harder, the pips bend much more, so if you have a LP rubber with smooth tips but grippy sides, it will grip much more when you brush harder....

The angle makes a difference too. If you hit it perpendicualr to the path of the ball, all pips will grab the ball equally on all sides, taking most of the spin off. When you hit at an angle you get a different effect depending on how you hit it. Of course thsi mainly applies to the grippy pips, since the frictionelss ones like Dr N SB will just reverse the spin almost regardless (pips are hard too so will not bend much).

Just try it against a looper and experiment... it's very effective...

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

I asked him on Wotan and wouldn't answer

_________________
Tibhar Grass D.techs OX | Donic BigSlam 2.0mm .
Re-Impact Medusa (balsa / 1-ply cherry wood)
Frictionless strokes | Attacking pip strokes | Greggy's advice | Bollsbrother | Sebastian Sauer . . . . . .

Oh.... a new pip! Very interesting. Reviews welcome..

_________________
Tibhar Grass D.techs OX | Donic BigSlam 2.0mm .
Re-Impact Medusa (balsa / 1-ply cherry wood)
Frictionless strokes | Attacking pip strokes | Greggy's advice | Bollsbrother | Sebastian Sauer . . . . . .

Greg's a busy man, he does not visit the forums that often.

I Emailed him when I first mentioned him in this thread, he always replies to my Emails but sometimes takes a while...

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

The thing about OX on a sticky pip is that the smallest flick and you can cause a large shift in spin reversal. The more sponge the more of an effort you need to achieve the same effect. Also OX also manipulation of spin reversal depending on how long or short you play the shot. Short soft shots have a large increase in spin reversal with OX, particularly with frictionless but you can achieve the same with a sticky pip with a flick of the blade angle.

_________________
Tibhar Grass D.techs OX | Donic BigSlam 2.0mm .
Re-Impact Medusa (balsa / 1-ply cherry wood)
Frictionless strokes | Attacking pip strokes | Greggy's advice | Bollsbrother | Sebastian Sauer . . . . . .