OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hmmm, I've had a strange league match this evening. As many of you may know, I've been playing with Anti Special the last few matches. I’ve yet to win a game with it, but it’s not the rubber, it’s me. I love the spin reversal is gives and I just need to work out the correct angles to block with it. However, in the last two league matches, I’ve used it in 5 of my 6 games, losing them 0-3, 1-3, 1-3, 0-3 and 0-3.

Sooooo, after the last loss I thought “hmmm, I really shouldn’t be practicing with this in league matches, perhaps I should just play with my Insider and work on the Anti Special in practice”. Well I’ve not played with my Insider on the new defensive blade I bought a while ago (the one in my signature ), so I wasn’t sure if I should really be changing mid-match (I hate messing about with different bats and normally I only travel with one to a league game to stop me changing).

Well the Insider was sitting in my bag and I thought “what the hell, let’s give it a go on this defensive blade”. Before I had it on my Andro ALL+ blade (blade 1 in my signature). Well, what the hell has happened to Insider? It’s incredible!!!! I must have just had it on the wrong blade before because I walk up to the table in the doubles against the two of the best players in our division and I have no trouble returning their serves, I have no trouble blocking their loops (I’m chop blocking rather than open face frictionless blocking) and I’m causing them all sorts of problems....serious problems!! The result? We win the doubles 3-1 because they can’t read the spin and I feel as if I can block until the cows come home.

I then stepped up to my final singles and considering I’ve been losing sooooooo badly I think to myself, “surely I’ve gotta play better now”. Well I win this game 3-0!!! Blocks works, chops worked, my loop was going on with the Roxon rubber. I was causing this guy so many problems at the end he said to me “I’ve no idea what you were doing but that black side (my Insider) was causing me all sorts of problems”.

All I can say is that I guess I’ve just been playing with Insider on the wrong blade all along and now it’s on my defensive blade, I can see what all the hype is about. It’s stunning....incredible....awesome! OK so it doesn’t reverse spin and cause the same wobble balls that the Anti Special does, but it’s so easy to put the ball back onto the table. Sure I can’t just use the same open faced frictionless block that I use with Anti Special, I need to chop block, but this worked really well. The guy was lifting some off the end of the table, then dumping them into the net.

Soooooo, what I think I need to do now is use Insider in my league matches and get another defensive blade and try some Anti Special on it. However, I just cannot believe how good Insider is on the right blade. It’s chalk and cheese!!!!! I’d go as far to say that it’s better than my old Inferno rubber, because not only can I block with it (albeit I have to chop block now rather than passive block, but that’s no big deal) but above all, I can send back some spin, then no spin and I can hit with it. It’s so versatile!

Anyway, I don’t really know what else to say about it but that you guys were right all along. Deep down I’ve always been a pips player and now it’s on the right blade, I think I’m going to be a pips player going forward! It still won’t stop me testing the Anti Special out in practice, but in match situations, I play so much better with Insider.....never thought I’d say that!

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Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand: Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
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Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!

Why even bother practicing with the anti special? Seriously, if you play so well in league matches, when people are more focused and more pressure is on, don't you wonder how far you could go if you practiced and played with the same thing? It sounds like you've found a blade/rubber combination that works for you, and that was only on the first night of play. Give it a serious shot, play leagues and practice with it, who knows how far it could take you.

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"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

I think Antispin rubbers demand that one should be prepared to play long rallies in order to win a point. So, that means your team in a league match will finish fairly late in the night which will definitely upset the sleep time. This was one of the main reason I stopped using antispin rubber.

I've had the same experience. I think working with an anti makes you more aggrressive and to work the ball more. Take that approach to the insider and you have an immediate increase. Also IMO Insider works A LOT better on a rigid blade. I know having tried it on both ethe Darker and the Cayman, it is a different beast on the Cayman

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Yasaka Dynamix 17
Tibhar Q 50
Butterfly Raystorm

Hmm... thats interesting. It'll be a bit fast though. The Rendler blades although expensive are probably extremely good for this stuff (slower backhand).

I'm spending the time to get to know 2mm Phoenix better. Really this is a frictionless/ soft pip hybrid and needs to be played as such.

I think that the best de novo post-frictionless rubbers the ITTF could ban them at any moment so its worth waiting a year to see what happens.

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Tibhar Grass D.techs OX | Donic BigSlam 2.0mm .
Re-Impact Medusa (balsa / 1-ply cherry wood)
Frictionless strokes | Attacking pip strokes | Greggy's advice | Bollsbrother | Sebastian Sauer . . . . . .

Chris - how could you ever have doubted me? lol This really is a great rubber and one to stick with.

I'm aiming to give you a call soon, so hopefully you, Graham and me can get together during the Xmas or New Year break, for a knock.

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Tango Ultra 2mm black, DMS Storkraft 1.6mm red, DMS Invictus
Well done bat!

The only thing to worry about now is that ITTF still doesn't go ahead and take Insider off the next list. Dingwol, how does Insider compare with CK531A? Am I right to assume when Insider was initially banned you went to the Palio because it plays similarly?

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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The Palio does play similarly but for me needed a slower blade. It is a slightly quicker pip with low grip - maybe a little more grip than Insider because you can definately attack a little more with it - but it is similar in the way it plays. I have Insider on FW+ blade which I love. On the same blade the Palio was a little quick for me so I put it on a Barricade - on this its slower than the Insider and FW+ combo and so so so easy to control.

I only tried the Palio when Insider was off the list and I had a match on the one day when it was officially banned so had to use an alternative. I won all 3 games with the Palio and actually considered continuing with it, so this will tell you just how similarly this can play on the right set up.

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Tango Ultra 2mm black, DMS Storkraft 1.6mm red, DMS Invictus
Well done bat!

I had the Insider on the Barricade as well, and for a short period thought it was the clear answer to the flp ban. I think I even used the phrase journey's end.

However, I found that against really good players you were stranded - just as you were with the DrN flp's. If you're always striving to improve your average (or rating) then I feel that the flp style of play will always be a barrier to better results. For me the only answer is a friction pip and a lot of practice!

I'm now looking forward to the next awsome rubber/blade combo update from Chris...

Neo Anti....., Insider......., DrN AS.........., Insider.....

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TSP Toccata
Omega V
CWX
More Classic than Modern Defender

Konkrete wrote:
However, I found that against really good players you were stranded - just as you were with the DrN flp's. If you're always striving to improve your average (or rating) then I feel that the flp style of play will always be a barrier to better results. For me the only answer is a friction pip and a lot of practice!

I agree with you that a friction pip with a lot of practice will help to improve one's average (or rating) and that the flp of style will always be a barrier to better the results.

I think the advantage of frictionless long pips was that thay allow one to stay close to the table and play an attacking game. Friction pips such as 837 (OX) or 1615 Power Play Double Fish are excellent to win games if one can cover or is prepared to cover a lot of court area to retrieve the balls. Both rubbers allow you to defend and attack. Any grippy rubber on the right blade will help to improve the average (or rating). I always used to get better results than frictionless rubbers with the following rubbers:
- 007 Phantom (OX)
- 837 (OX)
- 1615 Power Play Double Fish

Unfortunately, both 007 Phantom and 1615 Power Play were banned sometime ago. However, it was fun to play with a rubber like SB or Boomerang or Scalpel, Inferno, Original, etc; and all these have been banned now. I think any of the follwing rubbers with practice will help to achieve a reasonable average:
- Insider
- Boomerang Classic
- Phoenix
- CK 531A
- 837
- 007 Phantom
- Nittaku Screw One
- 1615
- Neptune
- 979 Xiying

Richard, I never doubted you lol, I just didn't have the rubber on the right blade. In fairness, I knew the rubber was good when I played against Graham. It just played so differently on his blade and was so much easier to control, which is one of the reasons I decided to put it on my defensive blade.

Yes, by all means give me a call and we can arrange a practice. I'm sure you can show me a thing or two with Insider as well

_________________
Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand: Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
-----
Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!

In my defence, I can explain my journey so far.

I started off with Insider and had it on the wrong blade. Even so, I still won a few games with it but I was still trying to play the frictionless style, e.g. open faced blocking rather than chop blocking. On the faster blade, this just didn't work. It was the wrong set up and I was playing the wrong shots and I couldn't work out why everyone thought this rubber was so good.

I then moved onto Neo Anti which in comparison (as it was on my defensive blade) felt amazing in control. I played a few games with this and practiced for a few weeks but found that I wasn't really doing anything with the ball. Again I was playing frictionless open faced blocks and all I was doing was killing spin. The awkward style I'd developed with Inferno had gone and with it, my main strategy and game plan!

I then tried Gorilla. This gave me the spin reversal I was looking for so that I could play the frictionless style but after a few hits, it was just too fast still. I really wanted it to work though and compared to the Neo Anti, it was just too quick, although I was getting good reversal I just couldn't keep the ball on the table consistently.

Then I moved onto Anti Special which is the best anti rubber I've played with so far. It has the control and the reversal and allows you to play the frictionless style. However I need more time with this to practice and learn the angles. The problem at the moment isn't the rubber, it's me.

So then I came full circle and ended up putting a sheet of Insider on my defensive blade which seems to be the winning combination. I have the control, the speed is now right and the rubber works well. HOWEVER, I'm no longer playing frictionless strokes. I'm now chop blocking and being more aggressive with the ball and this is what won me my games last night. It's a change in style and it seemed to work really well. Rather than pinning my hopes on the rubber to win me the points, I feel as if I'm winning them now.

I like to think of myself as a versatile player and would like to be able to play with both Anti Special and Insider and there's no reason why I can't. However, the most natural set up for matches at the moment is the Insider because, to be honest, I've played with pimples for 12 years and a couple of weeks with Anti just isn't enough.

I hope my reviews don't put people off. All I'm trying to do is tell it how it feels when I try a new rubber. Hopefully you can see above why I've changed so much - starting with a lack of control playing a frictionless style, finding a better controlled rubber (albeit on a slow defensive blade which had some impact) but not being able to do much with the ball, moving over to Anti Special where I can play the frictionless strokes, but I'm not up to match standard with it yet and finally going back to Insider but this time on a blade that suits it and feeling very comfortable with it.

I'm now at that stage Richard (Dingwol2) is at. I like this new style (i.e. the non-frictionless style) where you chop block and do more with the rubber. I feel now that I can hit, chop, kill spin and impart a little spin with Insider. This gives me more options and makes me unpredictable in matches. Above all though, my initial problem with Insider with regards to the lack of control has now gone away since putting it onto the right blade.

Anyway, I hope this explains my recent reviews and change of mind with regards to the rubbers I've tested

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Blade: Ross Leidy custom blade
Forehand: Butterfly Tenergy 05-FX 1.7mm
Backhand: Dr Neubauer Gangster and Desperado 2 (testing both) OX

Butterfly Amicus Professional robot
-----
Ever tried, Ever failed? No Matter.
Try again, Fail Again, Fail Better!

That must be a long time ago. I know the 0011 and 0012 were banned because of the aspect ratio changes awhile back so Yasaka came out with the "Infinity" versions, but I though the ITTF left the 007 alone.

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Long time ago Phantom rubbers were banned because of the aspect ratio. As a result of this, new phantom rubbers 0011 and 0012 were produced. Now, they have reproduced Phantom 007, 008 and 009 with a new aspect ratio. Also, 1615 Power Play Double Fish has been reproduced which comply with the ITTF regulations. 1615 Power Play was one of the best rubber to defend and attack.

Some of the senior players are still using old 1615 Power Play. I think same thing will happen with frictionless rubber in the local clubs or leagues. No one will take notice or care about it. ITTF rules are applicable to International or National Competitions. Many palyers don't know anything about frictiopnless or grippy rubbers. Only if you tell them they will realise.

Changing rubbers can be such a frustrating experience. Routine pushes go into the net. Simply blocks fly three feet over the edge. Easy counters bounce too high. On top of that, to bring out the full benefits of the new rubber we often need to change to a more appropriate blade, which sets everything even more off kilter and sometimes adversely affects our other wing, as well.

So, I think we former frictionless players players have a tendency to write off rubbers too fast. Sure it's necessary to have a hit with candidate rubbers to sense the feel, speed, grip, control, etc. But once a decision is made, not to be taken lightly, learning a new rubber takes time and no matter how good a rubber is, it's almost impossible to do well against evenly matched competition going in cold with a brand new type of rubber we've hardly used. Been there, done that.

After doing our due diligence and selecting a candidate rubber, I feel we need to slap it on a test blade and train for at least one month before we're somewhat competent and probably three months to be half-way decent and have confidence that the ball will go where we expect. Particularly in the case of this new Neubauer anti which it's a whole new animal. Even if we've played antis before, this one will have a longer learning curve since it's basically a new category. It would probably take six months of training to get this beast completely figured out.

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The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics