OOAK Table Tennis Forum

As some of you would know already, the new rule is now on the ITTYF site:

2.04.07 The covering material should be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc.

I'm very surprised they publish it before the olympics, as it could technically disqualify speed gluers... and wasn't the idea to implement it just after the olympics?

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But the speed glue IS ITTF aprooved.

this is too bad, but how can they know if you use just a little bit of tuning just to soften the hard sponge by a little? So this also banns Spinmax? or is spinmax also ittf authorised.

alot of review 'bout tuners and boosters wasted loved'em all

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DHS Hurricane King
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial 2.1mm
BH: Nittaku Hammond max.

Meaning - after taking rubber out of package, no glue, no tune, no EEII, no spin max, no parafin.
NO H2O?

I don't think any ref can detect it.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dARovqP9tT0#t=64

I can just imagine that water is not allowed, or the moist from ur breath. that would be closing down the sport of table tennis

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DHS Hurricane King
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial 2.1mm
BH: Nittaku Hammond max.

No the speed is not ITTF approved anymore, they just decided NOT to test for it's presence (in competition), till after the olympics.

The new tuners/boosters are designed to be legal VOC levels so they should not be detectable... it appears certainly the intention of the ITTF to ban boosters/tuners as well, but without being able to detect them it will be hard... The debate on whether tuners are affected by this rule is still on too, as some argue the ITTF does not approve sponges, only topsheets, whereas boosters are used on the sponge... In the end it will be up to the umpires to decide, as it seems unlikely the ITTF will make a formal announcement banning booster (then they would have to give an actual reason!!! Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad ). Very unprofessional of the ITTF...

Spinmax should be OK as long as it's used in moderation... The aqueous contains no VOC content, and if you use it only to restore your rubber to it's original level of tackiness, it should be perfectly legal IMO... Sure I might be biassed in this opinion, butin the end it's a cleaner, and as long as you don't make a rubber much tackier than it's supposed to be, I can't see any issues...

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Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

ITTF is an Amateur-ish organization. No planning and do what ever they want to do. Changing rules every ...what .... 3 month?

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http://www.NexyUSA.com
USE CODE "HAPPY15" FOR 15% discount at NexyUSA.com. Exp Nov 30th.
NexyUSA.com now carries Sauer & Tröger brand products
EASY P - http://nexyusa.com/collections/rubber/products/easy-p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6tyNTO7 ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0zkq9Ja3E8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dARovqP9tT0#t=64

I would argue that the SURFACE refers to the top of the top sheet, and that boosters are still ok as long as they don't have volatile solvents.

The intent MAY be to keep people from turning LP into a frictionless form.

But who knows, since as Bogey says, the ITTF are a bunch of useless old men with nothing better to do than bother people by messing with an already perfect sport.

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

Bah. It's easy to call someone else an idiot. And sometimes they really are an idiot, while sometimes you're the one without a clue. Did your parents ever tell you to do or not to do something, and you hated them for it but realized they were right twenty years later?

How perfect is our sport when every major manufacturer gives every pro chemicals to slather onto their rackets between matches? When the federation is vulnerable to lawsuits that could severely damage it? When it's easily within the realm of possibility that the IOC demanded that table tennis clean up its act or be removed from the olympics?

There are plenty of things that i don't like, but that doesn't make the ittf stupid. They probably have a hundred times more information from which to base their judgment than i do.

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Equipment: Matsushita PowerDefence, Spin Art 1.9 black, Xiying 979 ox red
Style: American | US Rating: barely 2000

Yes. There's still nothing specifically saying no sponge modification. And yes, only the topsheets are submitted to the ITTF.

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Chasse Patate

Actually that is exactly the point I was trying to make... if this rule makes tuners illegal, then it also makes speed glue illegal...

The argument is that gluing or boosting the sponge will stretch the topsheet, which changes it's charactertics...

I agree though that boosting the sponge and then attaching it to the topsheet is technically still legal!

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Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

- Doesn't make them less guilty of mis-information

- Nor do they justify the new rulings (neither scientifically nor on account of the IOC)

- Their rulings are always unclear and subject to interpretation

- These rules cannot be imposed practically, therefore creating differences between law-abiding players and those who don't care about such rulings (and thus are cheaters who are not stopped) You can't trust the law when there's no police force...

- The benefits to the large manufacturers that come from these new rulings hint at conflict of interest if not corruption

- The ITTF has no mechanism of bottom-up input, making it a governing body that does not represent the opinion of it's subjects, which usually only occurs after an armed coup-d'état (I may be a bit ranting here )

- Idiots or not, the majority of TT players that I know (including the members of this forum) do not agree with the 'recent' course the ITTF has taken. So I wonder: would any government do this to it's subjects, or would any company do this to it's shareholders? No, they wouldn't, but the ITTF exists without the players' mandate...

- From a player's standpoint, none of the rulings that have occurred (without our consent!) have improved the playing quality or the appeal of our sport. Even though there are health reasons for the speed glue ban, the banning of VOC-free tuners has no rational justification, nor did the 40mm ball or the Frictionless ban. It's like putting 12 players on a football (or soccer as you would call it) team instead of 11: it changes the sport, but who says it's an improvement?

- I have not the gift of clairvoyance (nor does anyone else ), but in twenty years, I don't think we'll all be saying: "Ooh, I'm glad the ITTF banned our old stuff, because this new stuff is really great. The price doesn't matter to me, I just pay whatever the manufacturer wants because I can only use that expensive equipment approved by my favorite federation, that lovely democratic institution called the International Table Tennis Federation!"

- If you're still reading my post, congratulations and thank you, whenever the subject of ITTF and rulings comes up, I feel the urge to speak up for common sense and the rights of the player.

@kagin: you do have a point, but why doesn't the ITTF tell us, the players, why and how decisions are made about our sport?


PS: doesn't cutting the rubber to fit your racket change the outlook of the rubber as it was approved by the ITTF

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Wow, excellent post, I agree too!

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Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

The ittf is far from perfect, and i've written plenty of criticism about the organization in these forums. But there's a big difference between criticism and insults.

There are also facts that seem to be misunderstood here. For one, we are not members of the ittf. Their constituents are the national associations, not the players. The ittf does not and should not consult with us before making decisions. However if the national associations were to vote for something at an AGM, it would go into effect. If your national association is unhappy with something, they should be talking with other associations and committees to fix the problem. If you want to get rid of sharara, that's the direction you should take.

Equipment manufacturers are not in favor of the glue ban. Okay, this can't be stated as a fact; each manufacturer will have its own feeling about things and it's not like they're all going to publicize their opinions anyway. Maybe ESN likes the glue ban, i don't know. But all indications that i've seen show that equipment companies generally love both speed glue and boosters. Players have to buy glue and replace rubber more often, and the companies make more money.


Next month i will be the head official at a tournament that's awarding almost $10,000 in prize money. As the person who will have to interpret and enforce the regulations with that prize money at stake, i'll give a hearty laugh at anyone who thinks i'm happy with any ambiguity from the ittf.

However i'm also very familiar with being in the position where players have made no attempt to understand the situation, but simply expect their demands to be met and can't even imagine the possibility that there might be logical reasons behind a decision. Calling people names is a lot easier than understanding.

I think the ittf has a lot of room for improvement in communication. But once you start with the name calling, communication goes out the window. When you get to that point, don't expect any of your questions to be answered. There's a difference between discussing on a forum vs lashing out.

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Equipment: Matsushita PowerDefence, Spin Art 1.9 black, Xiying 979 ox red
Style: American | US Rating: barely 2000

so kagin, this tourny next month:
Are you interpreting the rule as a sponge tuner and spinmax ban?

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Chasse Patate

We're getting down the chain of command here: ITTF consists of national federations, national federations of regional federations, which are made up of provincial committees (at least in Belgium...)

Now who do we have to blame when we don't like the ITTF's decisions? Our local ref, because he works for the provincial committee, who didn't inform our regional federation to voice our complaints to the national federation that can make a difference in the ITTF?

No, because
a) our local ref was never asked by his superiors to get our opinions.
b) that ref hasn't sufficient influence to change the decisions of the provincial committee, let alone the regional federation.
c) even if he had, what influence does a single national federation have in the decision-making of the ITTF?
d) strictly speaking, we wouldn't be able to have an opinion on the subject because we've only heard rumors before the actual ruling, we were never duly informed of changes that were about to happen.
e) 'chain of command' ethics: responsibility lies with the higher in command, not the lower
f) he's a nice guy, and he suffers from these rulings even more than we do, because he is the bringer of bad news and has to enforce these rulings.

@kagin specifically:
- You are right, name-calling doesn't get us anywhere, but we can just as well do it to vent our anger, because we can't end the dialogue with it, because there is no dialogue. Our frustration leads to our lashing-out.
- We personally aren't members of the ITTF, but we are subject to their decisions. Given the undemocratic structure of national federations, the ITTF is also undemocratic. Sadly the ITTF holds a monopoly on organized table tennis by means of the national federations. But hey, maybe we could ourselves become a federation of players, look what happened to the ITF...
- You are in a position of (relative) 'power', but people who aren't referees are just powerless. They have no say whatsoever over changes to their sport. It really *****.
- As silver asked: How will you interpret the new ruling?
- Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against you personally, but we disagree on some points, and discussing on this forum is an ideal way of exchanging views and ideas, to get a better understanding of the situation. At least here we have someone to talk to, whereas the ITTF offers us no way of communication. What level referee are you? Do you hold a position in your regional federation? Has your national or regional federation clarified the new ruling in any way, or told the refs in your area how to enforce it?
-On the subject of who's getting better out of the booster ban: speed glue was banned for health reasons (understandable, if somewhat overprotective), but boosters pose no harm to our health. However, one can make his own booster (e.g.parrafin) or enhance the topsheet (e.g. olive oil) very cheaply. The manufacturers won't feel it in their finances because revenues from boosters are replaced by revenues from (the more expensive) pre-tuned rubbers. But DIY-tuning players will have to buy tuned rubbers to be legal, thus increasing the manufacturer's profits.*

We can all agree that the ITTF's main flaw is lack of communication (and IMO lack of bottom-up input). However, because of no communication (let alone dialogue!) we have no way of changing things. We are mute, and the ITTF decides to leave us blind and deaf. A big part of being right is (IMHO) being able to show clearly to other people why you're right, and be open to any argument by others, and willing to explore those arguments (and even to change your opinion, should those arguments be strong). Objectively, the ITTF may be doing a great deed by these rulings, but we don't get any arguments from them, nor do they want to hear any of ours...

woops, another long post




* I don't have numbers on this, all of this my personal opinion and not backed by factual evidence

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