OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I'm not quite sure, but I think some of us here are using short pips on their backhand. I'd like to remind them - and myself - of the possibilities of backhand attack.

Generally, the backhand is considered to be weaker than the forehand. With inverted, it probably is for most players, because for a backhand loop you can't swing as you can for a forehand loop; there just isn't the same amount of room for it, since your arm needs to cross over before your body. But with pips, you don't need that swing at all. Or to be more precise, swinging cannot work with pips.
This is why. When you're looping with inverted, more than half of your arm's kinetic energy is transformed into rotation of the ball (topspin), less than half into forward motion (speed). With pips, rotation is seldom needed, never in abundance, so almost all of the energy goes into the forward motion of the ball all the time; which means pips need half the amount of kinetic energy as compared with inverted. It also means that with less energy you're able to get maximum result; because the stroke as such needs less power, with pips, forehand and backhand can be equally strong.

Needing half the amount of energy as with inverted (well, more or less), if you'd hit with pips the way you'd loop, the ball would go far over the table. So, playing with pips, you actually have to limit the amount of kinetic energy your arm-movement produces.
The best way to do this, is to keep your upper-arm completely out of it, because this part of the arm can only go forward and you definitely do not want too much of that. Besides, using your whole arm will tempt you to use more force than you should.
The best way to keep your upper-arm out of it, is by keeping your elbow close to your body and pointing down, always - even when you use the backhand. You have to feel sort of small all the time. Compact. No grand gestures!
You can't reach for the ball either, since that would mean using your upper-arm too. So you should move towards the ball, again and again. You have to use your feet, and you have to use your body - hips, torso, shoulder - bringing your hand and under-arm to the ball. Then you have to snap at it. A crisp hit, for quick attack!

It may seem silly, but I have to do this mental drill time and again, to remind me of what I should do, or I will lose control in a match. I don't find it too difficult to keep control during fast rallies with balls that land deep on my half; slow rallies are harder, with balls coming in at medium pace and not very deep, so I have to go and get them and still refrain from overhitting them because they seem so simple; and balls that bounce high and want to be killed instantly, those are hardest to hit crisply and in a controlled way.

I also do drills which, I hope, will build the physical reflexes I need.
For the first drill I ask my partner (most of the times it'll be one of my two sons, 13 and 14 years old now, who are very willing to help their poor old dad, but do so grinning, blast them) to feed balls to my backhand - roughly. The balls shouldn't come to the same place with the same speed all the time, I want to be made to move in and out, left to right, to block and to hit flat, with ever-increasing variation.
After a minute or 10, I'll have a drink (of water), and then start on the next drill, which is essentially the same, but now I have to be made to use my forehand as well.
After another 10 minutes of that, I'll drink again, some more now, and start on the last drill which includes pushing and rolling against backspin; besides, I'll have to be made to counter attacks at the middle (transition point).
After that, I'm done and I have to sit for 10 minutes.

Actually, I won't sit for 10 minutes. After just 5 I get up, daring the little devils to come to play and beat me. Which they do.
Still, I think those are good drills...

_________________
Without opponent, no match.

Is this technique similar to that of Johnny Huang's?

How different is this from the BH technique demonstrated by Geng Lijuan in her video tutorial (38 mm ball era)?

_________________
TSP Spectol Soft - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR WRB
--------------and--------------------
TSP Spinpips 21 - 2.0 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - BH
BBC 9-10-9

Amateur 101 wrote:
I think it is. And I don't think it differs from Geng Lijuan's technique.

_________________
Without opponent, no match.

Your observations seem sound.

I shall try them this Friday night.

_________________
TSP Spectol Soft - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR WRB
--------------and--------------------
TSP Spinpips 21 - 2.0 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - BH
BBC 9-10-9

Shao Yu, one of the best players in the U.S. and a product of the Chinese system, actually has a stronger backhand with his short pips than his inverted forehand, or at least it gives his opponents more trouble.

Wang Tao's backhand also didn't seem to be enjoyed by his opponents.

_________________
-- Andrew

Spintech All Around Penhold blade
Spinlord Keiler II 1.5 black
Nittaku FastArc G1 red

729 all around blade
Tibhar Grass D-Tec S Red
Nittaku FastArc G1 black

Thanks for another great post Kees, you really are a great resource for learning the finer points of using short pips. I am using them on my backhand, so this is definitely useful!

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Good instruction... Wished I read it much earlier... Now I'm going to have to re-read it several times and see if I can do it me self....

_________________
instagram: rokphishtt

Hi, Kees. Thanks for another great post. I am in the process of transitioning from inverted play to pimples-out play and am finding this forum a great resource. You and all you other knowlegable posters are my coaches. So thanks again.

I do have one concern and it relates to this:



In regard to backhand I find that keeping the upper arm away from the body somewhat (not high and away, but certainly away from the body) is working for me. I've looked at the Ding Song training video again and his backhand counterstroke displays beautiful form. He definitely keeps his upper arm what I would call a comfortable distance away from his body. Yes, Lijuan Geng, in her training video, starts with her upper arm close to her body. But I find Ding Song's backhand form much more...I don't know, potentially powerful yet controlled. Poised. It certainly dovetails with other descriptions you have used to describe ideal short-pimples form. (rapier thrust rather than broadsword, fencing etc) Maybe because Lijuang didn't have to withstand the powerful shots of the top men she didn't have to adopt such a technique. Ding Song's stance and upper arm position make him look ready, ready to block a hard shot or to counter, whatever is required.

By the way, Ding Song's follow through (really clear on the side on view) are a perfect illustration of what you have described in another post (can't find it now) when you were giving an exercise for players switching from inverted to pips out. You described a stroke (in relation to forehand I believe) in which, after contact, the motion would be the inverse of a loop. The follow through of Ding Song's stroke, with the very open face and slight rise, made me think of your description.

Hope you don't mind my quibbling, but some folks (me!!) might find Ding Song's backhand stoke the ideal model. Cheers!

So I reread it again today; perhaps I have been too concerned with hitting very hard on the backhand so it would be very threatening, so I overhit. I hope to remember this article again later when I play and hopefully find someone willing to practice defense while I work the backhand attack into my system.

_________________
Viscaria. H2 Neo 2.15. Tenergy 05 1.9.

Geng Lijuan video is really usefull to understand BH SP strokes, and what Kees described in his posts. THX Amateur and Kees

_________________
TIBHAR BALSA IV-L
FH TIBHAR Rapid x-press 2.0
BH TIBHAR Grass D-tech ox

Joe wrote:
I see what you mean, but "close to the body" is meant as opposed to the way you put your elbow forward/away from the body when you want to perform a good backhand loop. Using the upper-arm bringing the elbow out in front of the wrist, so you can whip and loop, is the wrong technique when playing with pips; with pips, you should only use the under-arm and not much wrist, so the elbow more or less stays where it is, closer to the body than the wrist. For penholders, the backhand drive actually begins with pushing your elbow to your stomach and except when you smash and follow through much, it more or less stays there; again, the stroke is performed with underarm and wrist only.

By the way, if you'd compare Ding Song's backhand with Wang Tao's, you'll notice there is a difference. Wang Tao makes contact with the ball sooner, well before the top of the bounce and so can close his blade a bit and go diagonally over it (actually making solid contact with the back of the ball, because it is coming up in an angle, ca. 90 degrees with the blade); this way he is bringing the ball down effectively and making use of its speed at the same time, so the ball will go fast and low over the net and bounce very low, leaving the opponent very little time to react. Ding (like Johnny Huang) makes contact closer to the top of the bounce, with his bat more open, which makes it easier to choose between soft-block or hard-block (taking the speed off the ball, or adding to it, resp.), so the return is harder to read for the opponent.

_________________
Without opponent, no match.

Kees wrote:
Very subtle observation. I'd been watching Wang Tao's backhand over and over, thinking, man if I closed the blade like that and hit so hard the ball would be in the net, especially with the OX short pimples. But yes, because he's contacting the ball on the rise (the angle of the ball off the table is still acute) his seemingly closed bat angle is actually meeting the rising ball at the conventional angle. And if he waited until the ball reached the peak of the bounce (or started dropping) and still used that angle, then he would do like me and frown as he watched the ball fall into the net! Good stuff.

Wang. What an inspiration. The look on his face is great when he really cracks the ball hard.

Lot's of people say that we should use only the under-arm ... When they say 'under-arm' do they really mean the Axilla, armpit? or the forearm?

The forearm is the most likely translation.

_________________
Viscaria. H2 Neo 2.15. Tenergy 05 1.9.

Stellan Bengtsson told me that the backhand hit is forearm based stroke.

_________________
TSP Spectol Soft - 2.1 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - BH
Stiga Clipper CR WRB
--------------and--------------------
TSP Spinpips 21 - 2.0 mm - FH
TSP Spectol 21 - 2.1 mm - BH
BBC 9-10-9